pointless ponderings

topic posted Tue, March 20, 2007 - 1:08 PM by  tee
i'll be the first to admit these theories are based on small pools of experience but i'm wondering about something....

it seems there's some sort of correlation between "smart" people [by that i don't mean encyclopedia smart knowing the gross export budget of lithuiania or understanding the theory of relativity but rather smart in terms of thinking outside 'the box'; willing to converse on a higher level as it were]

and people who are sexually broad-minded. maybe its the whole think outside the box thing that carries over.
posted by:
tee
offline tee
New Hampshire

  • I prefer to think outside the polyhedral sheeple mass. I like thinking inside the box; it's warm and moist and comfy. ;o)

    I think you're right, though. There is definitely a correlative connection between the capacity for expansive free-thinking, and open-mindedness, both generally and sexually. I wonder.. If we all joined body and mind in a massive free-lovin' orgy, could we tap the universal consciousness? Sounds like a worthwhile experiment. I'm game, how 'bout you?
    • tee
      tee
      offline 6
      sheeple -- one of my favorite phrases!!!! its just so so so apt! : )


      whether it taps the consciousness or not, there are certainly worst things to do with your time loll practice, lots and lots of practice shall be needed! ; )

      theoretically speaking, think we'd have any way to pick and chose which parts of the universal consciousness we ended up tapping? there are some parts i'm just as happy to skip
      • tee
        tee
        offline 6
        i guess what i'm finding intriguing to sort out is that "smart" tends to be a very sort of cerebral, higher level of the brain process; creativity and imagination are very different sort of process and (i thought) came from a totally different part of the brain

        while i don't think the two are exclusive of each other, i do find that thinking people are imaginative and will happily play in "what if" or "just imagine...." they're tons more fun to interact with in & out of clothing
        • Well if the software industry is any indication I'd say that's a fairly accurate description... Out of the box thinking is pretty actively discouraged in the software industry, which baffles me as software is perhaps one of the places where out of the box thinking is most useful in day to day living. I spent the better part of a decade as a computer programmer from 1998 to ... well now, although I've been trying to stop. It's a very heady, "smart" person's job / career / industry, yet it seems to be vastly dominated by the sheeple phenomenon. You say "hey, you know if we did x this way, it would help our users out quite a bit" and the programmers say "that's not taught in college, why would we want to do that?" And you say "umm... because it would help our users out quite a bit" and the programmers say "but it's not the way we've been doing things" and you say "it's better than the way we've been doing things because it would help our users out quite a bit" and the programmers say "no it's worse" and you say "how do you know it's worse" and they say "because it's not the way we've done things before" and you say "have you tried it?" and they say "we don't have time to try it" and you say "If you don't have time to try it, how do you know it isn't better?" and they say "because it's not the way we've been doing things up to this point". Vicious cycle.

          Very neurotic industry actually... It's kind of bizarre really if you think about it because it was a really small number of years ago that the whole concept of computer programming as we know it didn't even really exist... People in my dad's generation created much of what is common practice now out of thin air (and my dad was one of them - one of the first to put forward the notion that you could improve software by making changes to it after the fact, before the word "refactoring" had been coined to describe it). Perhaps it's becoming sedentary with new sheeple as a result of the expansion of the industry from the early pioneers to now include all the people who only became interested in it because they saw that there was money in it. I actually was thinking just earlier today that I'm rather like Tesla in that I've competed with people who've had huge teams of engineers working for them (like Edisson) while I've worked all by myself and achieved as much or in some ways more and yet my achievements had been humbugged over by the general populace and I'll probably "die in obscurity" where software development is concerned, merely because I think for myself and am therefore unpopular... and yes, a good part of the reason I'm unpopular is because unconventional thinking doesn't stop at software, it permeates every aspect of my life including my spiritual/religeous beliefs and my sex life -- and because I've never learned how to be "in the closet" without creeping people out because they know I'm hiding something which isn't nearly as bad as what they think it is. It's not something I do, it's something I am.

          Why am I rambling so much? Maybe it's 'cause I'm tired... maybe it's cause I'm always like this. :) Yes I personally have a lot more fun in conversations with people who combine disparate concepts and come to their own conclusions rather than simply repeating what they've heard. :) Honestly I'd love to continue programming under the condition that I could find a good boss who understood that I'm alt (bi / poly) up front and didn't care and who valued me for my ability to contribute *new* ideas to the software development process instead of simply regurgitating the culmination of a 4yr degree like the proverbial man with a hammer. Not having found that, I'm content to draw comic strips! :)

          ... my long winded way of saying I agree with you. :)
          • tee
            tee
            offline 6
            just yesterday i was poking around your profile and just KNEW we'd enjoy conversing and now here you are : )

            i am curious about one thing you mentioned -- you want a boss that can understand you being alt / bi / poly and accept your work outside teh box.

            seems to me your alt / bi /poly has nothing to do with your work. while it will likely contribute to a general "non-standardness" if you will; i think the fact that you can work outside the box is more relevant to you work. please know i'm not trying to criticize or squash your feelings, more of a friendly trying to understand them thing : )

            in terms of s/w companies, i have to wonder if some part of the box thign is due to age. people get to a certain age and they're more willing/accepting of getting it done and less anal about the how and less worried about adhering to the 'school system'. it has nothign to do with the topic, but it could be interesting to know how old the people were that you were dealing with.
            • re: the relationship between my personal life (bi, poly, pagan, etc) and my being fired from jobs ... Your curiosity doesn't bother me. :) It's wierd to a lot of people, it's even wierd to me. See at every job that I've been fired for being the way I am, I've only realized after having been fired that the reason why I was fired had to do with those things, even though I might have known at the time I was being fired that my bosses were lying when they gave their reasons. In my case I just happen to be so far afield of normal thought, that I don't have the self-preservation instinct that a lot of people have that says "no no no, don't say that, it'll make them uncomfortable". So I say it, they get uncomfortable and the next thing I know the job ends. Now there have been jobs where I've tried really hard to force myself to have those alarm bells and what seems to happen in the rare cases in which I do censor myself is that because I'm censoring myself the other people get the feeling that I'm hiding something ... because I am. :P Granted that I get the impression what I'm hiding isn't nearly as "bad" as they think it is, but at the same time what it actually is was bad enough for them to fire me in the first place. It hasn't happened at every job actually, I'll admit, it's just happened at more jobs than I care to remember. Other jobs have not paid me what I'm worth and then the company has gone out of business (or virtually out of business) or not paid payroll on time for months on end all for reasons unrelated to my work. But getting back to the ones where I've been fired for being "wierd", what tends to happen is that straight people at the company will bring up some subject in or around sex (or sometimes religion) while out having a smoke or at lunch and me being who I am, I express my opinions... and then it's all downhill... At Gothica for example my boss (who hired me) was talking to his other programmer about hookers when I entered the conversation... hmm... it seems to be perfectly okay for people to talk about sex and sex-related subjects at work as long as they happen to be straight / mono / conservative / waspy kinda folk. :P But I digress -- the issue really being that I can't control what they talk about, they talk about sex periodically, they don't want me to talk about sex and I feel like I've proven that I'm incapable of learning how to censor myself in a way that will help them to remain comfortable around me. So all things considered I think it's better that I surround myself with "freaks" who'll accept me as I am. :)

              My purely subjective impression of it in the software industry is that it has more to do with fundamental personality characteristics than with age. It strikes me that the people I've worked with across age ranges either are concerned with results or are concerned with convention by and large, with very little deviation ... they seem to be pretty well polarized... and I have as difficult a time dealing with the folks on the results side actually because the folks on the results side in my experience are usually mostly concerned with getting results at break-neck speeds and are willing to sacrifice both quality and HUGE amounts of time later fixing the problems that are caused by programming at those speeds. I like to take a genuine R&D approach, in which you can take your time, experiment as much as you can, have a *high* failure rate and adapt or adopt the results of those experiments that have worked well. I've only come close to that kind of environment once while I was at Site Manageware and having spoken with some coworkers since leaving I've discovered that their environment has become very beurocratic and academic-centric since I left. For a number of months it was a great job, the best I'd had, but I discovered after a year working there and having my wages garnished that even though I was paying $300/mo extra back to child-support, the arrearage had gone *up* because the state applied interest to the arrearage, which meant that even at $50k salary I wasn't getting out of the debt. I'd originally been promised a raise to $70k at the end of the year, but in spite of having been their "go to guy" who answered everybody else's tough questions when they were stuck with a problem, they didn't seem willing to give me the raise. That's why I left. It's probably for the best anyway. I'm rambling again. :)
              • I'd have to agree about the personality thing. Over the past twenty years, I'd say that my experience has shown that it is true that really, 10% of the programmers do 90% of the innovative stuff and solve the tough problems. The rest just fill in the frameworks...and, well, is that ever likely to not be the case?
                • I doubt it's likely to ever change... it's just very difficult to make any headway as one of the innovators, particularly if you botched whatever opportunity you might have had when you were young to get that bachelors' degree. And in the long run it just became really frustrating (not to mention embittering) to me to watch other people getting all the credit often for things I'd already done myself where nobody cared when I'd done it. But there's always that passage in Machiavelli's the Prince to explain why innovators have souch a tough time of it too, not just in the software industry...

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